LAS VEGAS: The auction house owner who arranged a confrontation between O. J. Simpson and two memorabilia dealers in a Las Vegas hotel room in September said today that Mr. Simpson might not have known two of the men with him brought guns to the incident.

The question is pivotal to whether Mr. Simpson conspired to commit armed robbery when he and five acquaintances burst into a room on Sept. 13 and departed with $100,000 in memorabilia from the football careers of Mr. Simpson and Joe Montana as well as the baseball career of Pete Rose.

A judge is hearing testimony this week to determine whether Mr. Simpson and two co-defendants should be tried on 12 charges including armed robbery and kidnapping in the incident. The three other men with Mr. Simpson have accepted plea bargains in exchange for testimony against Mr. Simpson and two of them have said they carried guns.

"It was real chance he didn't he know" about the guns, said the auction house owner, Thomas Riccio, who rented the room at the Palace Station where the incident occurred. "Do I know 1000 percent? I know that's what he said. He was standing several feet in front of the guns."

Mr. Riccio testified today that a memorabilia dealer, Alfred Beardsley, approached him on behalf of another dealer, Bruce L. Fromong, in early summer to see if Mr. Riccio's auction house might help him sell some Simpson items, including trophies, plaques and family photos. Mr. Riccio said he disliked and was suspicious of Mr. Beardsley and informed Mr. Simpson of Mr. Beardsley's claims, prompting Mr. Simpson to say those items were stolen and to ask Mr. Riccio to help him get them back.

Mr. Riccio said he told Mr. Beardsley he had an interested buyer who wanted to meet in the hotel room to see the items, but it was Mr. Simpson and his group en route.

Mr. Riccio also said that Mr. Beardsley admitted several times that the items were stolen in advance and after the raid. "He came right out and said these items were stolen from O.J.'s trophy room, no doubt about it," Mr. Riccio said of Mr. Beardsley.

But Mr. Fromong testified on Thursday that he rightfully owned the Simpson items and had purchase receipts from another dealer, Mike Gilbert, to prove that. Those receipts have not been entered into evidence and it remains unclear how Mr. Gilbert came into possession of the items. The defense argues that if the items were originally stolen from Mr. Simpson, the incident cannot be viewed as a robbery.

Today Mr. Simpson's lawyer, Yale Galanter, repeatedly questioned Mr. Riccio on whether Mr. Fromong had ever said the Simpson merchandise was stolen. Mr. Riccio acknowledged Mr. Beardsley had said so in Mr. Fromong's presence before the Simpson group arrived, but Mr. Riccio also said that Mr. Fromong was on the phone at the time and may not have been listening.

Mr. Beardsley "was real up front about it from the beginning to the end," Mr. Riccio said.

Mr. Galanter also asserted that because Mr. Fromong and Mr. Beardsley are heard on a tape surreptitiously made by Mr. Riccio as telling Mr. Simpson to take his items but not to take items related to Mr. Montana and Mr. Rose, it was a reflection that Mr. Fromong and Mr. Beardsley also regarded the Simpson items as belonging to the former football star.

When the other men started taking other items, Mr. Fromong and Mr. Beardsley objected, Mr. Riccio said.

The prosecutor, Chris Owens, later asked Mr. Riccio whether Mr. Fromong and Mr. Beardsley had reason to be frightened of Mr. Simpson and his allies. "I would say there was intimidation, yes, but I didn't see a gun" until about a minute into the six-minute encounter, Mr. Riccio said.

The final witness of the week was Charles Cashmore, one of the five men who entered the room with Mr. Simpson. Mr. Cashmore is one of the three men who have pleaded guilty to a charge of felony accessory to robbery, which may result in a sentence of probation, in exchange for testifying against Mr. Simpson and the other two co-defendants.

Mr. Cashmore reiterated the version of events heard several times before, that he and the group burst into the room and, at Simpson's direction, took the memorabilia. He said he met Mr. Simpson that same day through an acquaintance, Clarence Stewart, who is one of Simpson's co-defendants.

The presence of guns at the incident came as a shock, Mr. Cashmore testified.

Attorneys for Mr. Stewart and the third defendant, Charles Ehrlich, complained today about Mr. Cashmore's appearance on Fox News Channel with Greta Van Susteren on Thursday night. Mr. Ehrlich's attorney, John Moran Jr., said the appearance had violated the judge's order that witnesses not listen to any of the other people's testimony or discuss testimony during the hearing.

Justice Court Judge Joseph Bonaventure Jr. asked Mr. Cashmore whether he had discussed anything of substance about the case with Ms. Van Susteren and he insisted he had not, saying he merely answered a couple of questions about how he was feeling.

"I do not find a violation of my order," Judge Bonaventure concluded. Still, he said, "I am somewhat disturbed by this, a witness in this case after being told not to watch at any testimony going on television."

The hearing is adjourned until Tuesday morning, stretching proceedings that were expected to last two days into at least a third. Clark County Justice Court Chief Judge Douglas Smith, who has been designated by the court to discuss the case, said this is an unusually long preliminary hearing.

Thus far, only four of the expected eight prosecution witnesses have been called. The defense is not planning to call witnesses. District Attorney David Roger could have expedited the process by going to a secret grand jury to get the charges bound over for trial. In that case, the defense is not allowed to cross-examine witnesses but the testimony cannot be used at trial. Since Mr. Fromong had a heart attack days after the Sept. 13 incident, Mr. Roger wanted to make sure his testimony was preserved in case his health deteriorating.

More O.J. Pieces by Steve Friess